Jedi = squishy

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Tyclo
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby Tyclo » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:13 pm

Oh man, I was hoping that I would stir up this conversation, but I guess it was inevitable.

Here's the middle ground.

The role of Jedi is interesting on this server. Up until unlocking on Rev, I had never played a PreCU Jedi as I only unlocked on live during CU; so this is all new to me and I really have nothing to compare it to.

So far, it has been a bit of a novelty. Using AI and Heal Other 2, I found my niche and am performing tasks that no non-Jedi template can accomplish, it's fun, but still a tad underwhelming.

The defense and utility as a Master Defender feels lacking. Especially after reading the June 6th patch notes of Avoid Incap causing 200 BF. (This is a discussion for the Defender forums)

I agree with Toni and that if Jedi are to be "glass cannons" on this server, that the Defender tree is almost better off being removed and the stats distributed through the other trees in some manner. Although this is a long term solution that we wouldn't be seeing any time soon. Nor do we (the players) know what direction Jedi is going to be taken in the future.

Edit: I just read Eky's response to Toni about Defender ::smileysadface:: - Although I'm sure there's a plan here...

My final thoughts. Jedi is easy to get and not really worth the effort. You'd think this would discourage people, but it doesn't. Making not Jedi not as overpowering does indeed bring balance to the ease of unlocking, yet a lot of people still insist on playing Jedi. So the problem still exists.

I've been away the past week, only sneaking on to see the GCW changes when I was stuck in a downpour. I am going to Europe today (I'm going to be in Germany!) so I probably won't be able to follow up with a response anytime soon. These are just my thoughts, I hope these are welcome. I omitted a lot of rambling, so I'm sorry if some of my post is illegible. :P

Good luck with the rest of the GCW update.
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby HK47 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:16 pm

you are padawans :P
There will be a Knight Trail and a Knight system
and after That the FRS System with Guardians, ....

how strong should be a padawan ? what is then the end result ? Imortal God ?

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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby p3cAd0R » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:37 pm

HK47 wrote:you are padawans :P
There will be a Knight Trail and a Knight system
and after That the FRS System with Guardians, ....

how strong should be a padawan ? what is then the end result ? Imortal God ?


Exactly....
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby TuskenJawa » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:02 pm

HK47 wrote:you are padawans :P
There will be a Knight Trail and a Knight system
and after That the FRS System with Guardians, ....

how strong should be a padawan ? what is then the end result ? Imortal God ?



LOL! Okay HK... you win! :mrgreen:
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby p3cAd0R » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:12 pm

TuskenJawa wrote:
HK47 wrote:you are padawans :P
There will be a Knight Trail and a Knight system
and after That the FRS System with Guardians, ....

how strong should be a padawan ? what is then the end result ? Imortal God ?



LOL! Okay HK... you win! :mrgreen:


Did you forget to visit me at the cloner this morning? :lol:
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby TuskenJawa » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:16 pm

p3cAd0R wrote:
TuskenJawa wrote:
HK47 wrote:you are padawans :P
There will be a Knight Trail and a Knight system
and after That the FRS System with Guardians, ....

how strong should be a padawan ? what is then the end result ? Imortal God ?



LOL! Okay HK... you win! :mrgreen:


Did you forget to visit me at the cloner this morning? :lol:


Haha, Swooper seems harder now!

I'd love to do some more testing with my Jedi build in regards to the Enhancer changes with this new update. I'll tell you this much, I feel like a Battleship Cannon that is made out of a single sheet of newspaper! Obviously this was an extreme exaggeration... but when you see that much lighting shooting all over the place and things are dying all around you, you get a false sense that you're a Sith Lord. As soon as you grab agro, you are reminded that you are nothing more than a Youngling, that just ran into Darth Anakin, in the Council Chambers. ROFL!!!

I chose xxx4 Healer over xxx4 Saber. In my opinion, that was a big mistake. So my next test (this week) is to try Saber over Healer. If that doesn't work, it will be 4xxx Defender over xxx4 Saber.
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby taiahwhatever » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:36 am

Parth wrote:i dont know what you mean, skynet :-)
where is the news? the wine on jedi is (est)2003 by the SOE-Forums. wether its from the jedi themself or all the non-jedi.

there will be no "jedi-balance" or any sort of an all-even balance across classes in any mmo ever; well, maybe when its all just the same class with different appearances.

this is just another topic in a long line we alrdy established here on rev... ppl will still open more and more threads before they get off their butts and use the search function.

JEDI = GLASSCANNONS.
and thats a good thing, b/c that way we will still see other classes doing events and stuff. most ppl will never realize this tho, because they still think "ey lol, jedi is iconic, jedi has to be op, wtfroflz noob devs /forumpostragequit"; while they dont get that its for the better and are not bright enough to realize that 90% of their opponents have low resistance to their main dmg type.

im still open for the discussion of balancing jedi within the class itself, aka give more reasons to not go mdef. but i havent played around with the latest patches yet either. the weather outside is just too fine and the euro is on.

#GOGER

(p.s. open the test server pls to let us test jedi temps :))



Just an FYI defense = tank in any MMO so MD would mean that the jedi is suppose to be a tank. Also a glass cannon is something that can kill something in 2 shots but also dies easy a jedi is not that because you cant kill something with jedi that fast the dying easy is part of the glass cannon so you got that right. Removing something that is suppose to be a part of the game is dumb it just needs fixed all the other specs need fixed if you dont like that everyone goes that spec it means something is wrong with the specs.
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby Stomis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:02 am

Personally I think that there should be some innate defenses removed from defender and granted in other jedi boxes. It would be nice to see like 1pt of jedi toughness in every 3rd and 4th tier non light saber and non defender jedi box just so your investment with skill points is granting you some sort of defenses somewhere instead of having to blatantly spend loads of points just to get SOME sort of defenses. Also it wouldnt be a horrible idea to spread some melee/ranged defense around other boxes and even jedi state defense too just like was done to medic, doctor, squadleader etc.

W/O having any points in defender its really not unreasonable to say a typical non defender template should have something like 25 melee/ranged defense, 25 jedi state defense and 15 jedi toughness. Slight changes to defender values could be made to keep your overall cap of whats obtainable the same.


But at the same time like HK said Knight/FRS is coming. You could be come a knight and gain all that in one box for all we know. There were a lot of templates on live that sucked w/o going into the FRS and I for one am hoping that force armor becomes even better comes FRS time.
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby Skynet » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:00 am

"You could be come a knight and gain all that in one box for all we know"

Nope the Knightrank will be 3 seperate new professions where you need to choose one, all 3 professions will have 18 skillboxes.
Knight specializations are: Juggernaut - defense, Marauder - offense, Wayfarer - utility

You will need to work for the boxes and boxes will decay if you are in the negative XP. I can put the 3 professions in the client file so you get a teaser
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Re: Jedi = squishy

Postby Parth » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:46 am

taiahwhatever wrote:
Parth wrote:.....


Just an FYI defense = tank in any MMO so MD would mean that the jedi is suppose to be a tank. Also a glass cannon is something that can kill something in 2 shots but also dies easy a jedi is not that because you cant kill something with jedi that fast the dying easy is part of the glass cannon so you got that right. Removing something that is suppose to be a part of the game is dumb it just needs fixed all the other specs need fixed if you dont like that everyone goes that spec it means something is wrong with the specs.


taiwhatever, i really have a hard time trying to understand what you are saying.
maybe you or another native speaker can help me out. it might be me whos lacking here.

thanks tho for explaing mmo basics to me :cool:
but, what exactly is "dumb" here?

i try to explain my point again:

- i was the first jedi on rev (by 1minute lol), so i really wanted to become one. 7-9 of my guildies unlocked on the same run with me.
- we are all pre CU veterans (03-04(tm)) and had our fair share of jedi experience on the live servers. so then tested jedi excessivley here on rev to live our memories up again.
- we quickly found out that jedi is NOWHERE near strong as compared to pre/post CU or like he was in the nge. so we came to the forums and shared our experience - and asked: whats going on here?
- we then learned FROM ETAS, who wrote all the jedi stuff (its not HKs baby) what he had in mind how jedi should play on rev. which is: a glasscannon. so that is nothing i came up with; im just rephrasing etas VISION.

we and other guilds who then unlocked kept stressing the low defenses which is why at first mdef got mita1, then mita2 with the LS getting mita1 as well (that was later). before that it was WORSE.
we got we wanted, which is stronger defenses, but really only mdef is viable when you are out there solo. this lead to 9/10 players going mdef which bored ppl - which lead me to try to give jedi another spin by removing mdef and give defenses to other classes (by getting rid of AI and lower SP). but this is in another topic, it has been discusses about, devs dont want it. end of story.

so what im now doing, as i understand etas approach to NOT establish another GOD glass (like jedi on live) im backing him up. its for the better.
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