What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

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seant8
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What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby seant8 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:51 am

I'd like to hear from other carbineers on the subject of the Elite Carbine. Do you feel it needs to be improved? The carbineer profession has received much needed love on this server and it would be great to see the signature weapon improved as well.
Possibilities:
1. Change to AP2?
2. Change damage type?
3. Damage increase?
4. It's fine the way it is?

Maybe this could morph into an official suggestion to the devs.
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby Ebola » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:45 am

Carbineer received some love. Still don't see many (any?) Carbineers running around.
Until they have a weapon whose damage is on par with a T-21 with ap3, you won't see many more than you do now.
That's all they need.
I'm not a fan of the "well they get crowd control" argument. So does any ranged class that takes xxx4 Marksman. The most powerful form of crowd control comes at novice brawler.

Honestly, anytime I see a pistoleer or Carbineer show up to a WB, I dont count them among the damage dealers.
Same goes for fencers and TKs.

Why no custom server has decided to put these professions on par with swords/rifles is beyond me.
It would literally have almost no effect on PvP, everyone would still choose rifles because of the 64m head shot with stun damage. And the 64m death blow. Or Jedi for the unmitigated damage type.

The only thing it would do is open up the viability of some forever gimped classes and make them not be shunned in a dungeon group/WB
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby avari » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:38 am

agreed on all points Tsion

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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby deathblooms » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:57 am

Ya, agreed. I've often thought the exact same.
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby ArtDadofER » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:22 pm

Can't really argue with what Tsion said. :)
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby seant8 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:03 pm

Tsion hit the nail on the head. Here are my proposed changes:
Elite Carbine: add AP2 to make it better than the laser carbine. I actually think it should be AP3 but I don't know if the devs would see that as too drastic of a change, and realistically carbines shouldn't hit as hard as a long range rifle.
EE3 Carbine: add AP2 to it as well, make the other stats on par the with the Elite Carbine, and move the cert to Novice Bounty Hunter.

Another possibility would be to leave certs alone, and give AP2 to the Elite, EE3, DXR6, and Nym's Slugthrower carbines. It kind of makes sense, there are AP1 pistols, AP2 carbines, and and AP3 rifle, with speed as a trade-off. Although we all know that the speed system is broken with speed CAs and AAs.


Thoughts?
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby TheTinyPebble » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:57 pm

I very much disagree that Carbineers need AP3, they need a much better AP2 than the laser rifle. This could be the elite carbine, but this doesn't solve the carbineer problem. Having one or two AP2s to choose from (one energy, one acid or heat perhaps) would be quite handy.

The biggest issue with carbineer is that they pretty much need BH to be functional. Carbineers themselves lack speed (65 speed total, come on) and the BH specials are actually better than the Carbineer specials. Carbineer without BH is a lackluster profession.

Bring the Carbineer specials up on par with rifleman damage to account for the lower AP as well. Rifleman are *pure* damage dealers, AP3 and AoE with a 5x damage multiplier, no other profession gets this. Carbineers are not pure damage dealers, they are meant to apply state and support, and they are good at it, jedi are just better (and abundant). Thus Carbineers have no real role in a group setting, which isn't really defined in SWG either.

Another issue is the way KD works, a BH/Carbineer (because you need to) has 4 different KD skills, but can only apply KD every 30s still.

I drifted a bit from the topic I think, since I think my first paragraph pretty much answered the topic question. Giving Carbineers AP3 won't fix the problems with Carbineers, just mask it. Let's fix the underlying problems with the profession as a whole instead.
Last edited by TheTinyPebble on Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby seant8 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:25 pm

From the comments here, it seems the best request regarding weapons would be the following:

Add Armor Piercing 2 to the Elite Carbine, EE3 Carbine, DXR6 Carbine, and Slug Thrower Carbine. Make the Slug Thrower craftable.

This adds to the carbineer's effectiveness by giving them 3 damage types and putting the damage in the middle of pistols and rifles as it should be. It also takes nothing away from anyone else.
Tiny brings up many valid points about the carbineer trees that should be addressed in another thread.
Any objections before making a formal request in the Professions Suggestions forum? I'm a fanatic about carbines and I will advocate for the profession until server sunset, I just want to make sure my suggestions are reasonable.
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby TheTinyPebble » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:42 pm

I don't think it's necessary for the Slug Thrower to be AP2, for now at least. Making it craftable will make a big difference in it's usefulness though.
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Re: What could be done to improve the Elite Carbine?

Postby ArtDadofER » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:07 pm

The slug thrower is the only kinetic weapon for a Carbineer, not having it be craftable pretty much means a serious lack of damage against certain mobs thus making it less desirable again.
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