Master Healer, by the numbers

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taiahwhatever
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Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby taiahwhatever » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:02 pm

This post is being created to provide detailed information on how healing currently functions on the server.

Link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LgviEXtArghCe1EWIqvqfNJl9pEBzJmIQsdo3hUg1oc/edit?usp=sharing

The linked google documents spreadsheet has all of the numbers related to Jedi Healing. A great deal of time went into ensuring the numbers recorded were as accurate as possible.

In addition, a separate page of the spreadsheet has suggested values as opposed to what they currently are on live. The suggested values were based on the following mindset:

    -Master Healer is a support class and therefore should be able to support their group

    -So long as long as force efficient heals are being used for the given situation; there should not be a worry of running out of force within 7-10 heals.

    -Master Healers have minimal defenses so they rely on their heal abilities to keep themselves and those around them alive in the battle. (This is not to say they should be able to tank)

    -Master Healer should not be outclassed in healing by a Combat Medic or Doctor

Suggestions aside; this spreadsheet can be used for those interested in pursing Master Healer in its current condition.

Thanks for taking the time to read

*Disclaimer*
The suggestions are based solely on opinion and the information available to us. Please don't take what is being stated on a personal level and keep any discussions clean.
Last edited by taiahwhatever on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DLightning
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby DLightning » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:02 pm

absolutely great post. I agree on everything youve said.

Currently i can heal at a much higher rate, a more dmg, and still be effective at doing dmg in comparison to a Master Healer on my doctor and my combat medic. Losing force within 10 heals makes a master healer pretty much useless, considering they may have to heal themselves. Maybe an area heal ( possibly cone based ) to help support a group. It wouldnt be high in dmg healed but more spread out. Maybe reducing force cost on some heals. or make it % healed based on dmg healed.

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HK47
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby HK47 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:44 pm

@DlLightning: he has only in his Sheet the maxvalues. The Forcecost are calculated to the ammount of dmg you healed up to the maximum of forcecost in his sheet. If you Heal a lesser ammount your Forcecosts are already lower.

@taiahwhatever thanks for you input i look with andi in after the weekend when we have more time, already there are some changes in plan

Some Input to be considered from my side:

"-Master Healers have minimal defenses so they rely on their heal abilities to keep themselves and those around them alive in the battle. (This is not to say they should be able to tank)"

Yes but you have compared with Live 24 Extra Skillpoints. You can also combine a master Healer with a master defender and with Lightsaberskills. So Very good Defence with awesome heals with good DMG Output. A combination again where we have our super soldier with such low force costs.
For Group support its good to make changes but for Self Heals lowering Time and Force costs is umm .. we need to think hard about that and need to do tests.
A Jedi With 2 Masters reach the 7250 Force Max, with the higer Robes he have 7750-8000 Force with 90 Force Regen +30 from a higher robe so 120 Force with one Regentick, for a Healer Role only thats a lot of Heals, we need also to look that it is not possible to spam heals and make a friend invulnerable.

-Master Healer should not be outclassed in healing by a Combat Medic or Doctor
The Doctor 140 Skillpoint vs a 89 Skillpoint Healer with more Skills. The Jedi dont need Resources and dont need Stimpacks.
The Jedi can heal Mind in large amounts.
Doctors and CM can use now the better MindHealing Skill or the TentDmg, but that raises strongly the BF, you cant spam it. Then otherwise as the Jedi are Docs and CM massiv affected from the BF.
High BF can lower your Heal Output down to 4% . That means a 2000 Action/Health heal makes only 76 points at the end.
Also if your target have high Wounds that limit the Healing on your target too. (again down to 4%)

Your Jedi healer hav not these Problems, he need no stimpacks, have no BF troubles and can as long he have force heal unlimited the complete HAM Bar.
A Doc can Heal also with his big Stims only 10 times before his high buffed mind is out. And he need Buffs and Drinks to push that up on that Level. Without that he can perform 2 Heals.

Every Class if its Healer, Doc or CM have a other Role, Abilities and a Playstyle. The Big goal at the end is that we have 3 classes where people have fun to play and not only 1

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Ramin
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby Ramin » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:18 am

Just wanted to point out that the minimum force costs are in fact listed. They can be found in their own column next to the maximum force costs. The abilities that have their minimum force cost listed as 1 increase up to the max force cost listed based on the amount healed.

Not all heals are currently functioning this way though. The force cost for Total Heal Self and Total Heal Other currently do not scale based on the amount healed. They use the maximum force cost no matter if you use them to heal 1 damage or 1000 damage.
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Shikihime
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby Shikihime » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:24 am

Sounds like a good plan that these 2 skills scaling too ;)

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Ebola
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby Ebola » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:27 am

HK47 wrote:@DlLightning: he has only in his Sheet the maxvalues. The Forcecost are calculated to the ammount of dmg you healed up to the maximum of forcecost in his sheet. If you Heal a lesser ammount your Forcecosts are already lower.

@taiahwhatever thanks for you input i look with andi in after the weekend when we have more time, already there are some changes in plan

Some Input to be considered from my side:

"-Master Healers have minimal defenses so they rely on their heal abilities to keep themselves and those around them alive in the battle. (This is not to say they should be able to tank)"

Yes but you have compared with Live 24 Extra Skillpoints. You can also combine a master Healer with a master defender and with Lightsaberskills. So Very good Defence with awesome heals with good DMG Output. A combination again where we have our super soldier with such low force costs.
For Group support its good to make changes but for Self Heals lowering Time and Force costs is umm .. we need to think hard about that and need to do tests.
A Jedi With 2 Masters reach the 7250 Force Max, with the higer Robes he have 7750-8000 Force with 90 Force Regen +30 from a higher robe so 120 Force with one Regentick, for a Healer Role only thats a lot of Heals, we need also to look that it is not possible to spam heals and make a friend invulnerable.

-Master Healer should not be outclassed in healing by a Combat Medic or Doctor
The Doctor 140 Skillpoint vs a 89 Skillpoint Healer with more Skills. The Jedi dont need Resources and dont need Stimpacks.
The Jedi can heal Mind in large amounts.
Doctors and CM can use now the better MindHealing Skill or the TentDmg, but that raises strongly the BF, you cant spam it. Then otherwise as the Jedi are Docs and CM massiv affected from the BF.
High BF can lower your Heal Output down to 4% . That means a 2000 Action/Health heal makes only 76 points at the end.
Also if your target have high Wounds that limit the Healing on your target too. (again down to 4%)

Your Jedi healer hav not these Problems, he need no stimpacks, have no BF troubles and can as long he have force heal unlimited the complete HAM Bar.
A Doc can Heal also with his big Stims only 10 times before his high buffed mind is out. And he need Buffs and Drinks to push that up on that Level. Without that he can perform 2 Heals.

Every Class if its Healer, Doc or CM have a other Role, Abilities and a Playstyle. The Big goal at the end is that we have 3 classes where people have fun to play and not only 1



Amen. Finally a Dev with the good sense to understand the difference between alpha and god-mode.
Tsion - Master Doc / On break (tm)

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taiahwhatever
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby taiahwhatever » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:40 am

Ebola wrote:Amen. Finally a Dev with the good sense to understand the difference between alpha and god-mode.


Nowhere in my post did I say I wanted to be alpha or god-mode. The post was created to bring attention to an under performing class while including hard numbers as a basis for the discussion. If you believe a healer actually performing their role of healing in a group is god-mode then you might want to rethink your definition of the word.
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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby MakenCheez » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:59 am

Ebola wrote:
HK47 wrote:@DlLightning: he has only in his Sheet the maxvalues. The Forcecost are calculated to the ammount of dmg you healed up to the maximum of forcecost in his sheet. If you Heal a lesser ammount your Forcecosts are already lower.

@taiahwhatever thanks for you input i look with andi in after the weekend when we have more time, already there are some changes in plan

Some Input to be considered from my side:

"-Master Healers have minimal defenses so they rely on their heal abilities to keep themselves and those around them alive in the battle. (This is not to say they should be able to tank)"

Yes but you have compared with Live 24 Extra Skillpoints. You can also combine a master Healer with a master defender and with Lightsaberskills. So Very good Defence with awesome heals with good DMG Output. A combination again where we have our super soldier with such low force costs.
For Group support its good to make changes but for Self Heals lowering Time and Force costs is umm .. we need to think hard about that and need to do tests.
A Jedi With 2 Masters reach the 7250 Force Max, with the higer Robes he have 7750-8000 Force with 90 Force Regen +30 from a higher robe so 120 Force with one Regentick, for a Healer Role only thats a lot of Heals, we need also to look that it is not possible to spam heals and make a friend invulnerable.

-Master Healer should not be outclassed in healing by a Combat Medic or Doctor
The Doctor 140 Skillpoint vs a 89 Skillpoint Healer with more Skills. The Jedi dont need Resources and dont need Stimpacks.
The Jedi can heal Mind in large amounts.
Doctors and CM can use now the better MindHealing Skill or the TentDmg, but that raises strongly the BF, you cant spam it. Then otherwise as the Jedi are Docs and CM massiv affected from the BF.
High BF can lower your Heal Output down to 4% . That means a 2000 Action/Health heal makes only 76 points at the end.
Also if your target have high Wounds that limit the Healing on your target too. (again down to 4%)

Your Jedi healer hav not these Problems, he need no stimpacks, have no BF troubles and can as long he have force heal unlimited the complete HAM Bar.
A Doc can Heal also with his big Stims only 10 times before his high buffed mind is out. And he need Buffs and Drinks to push that up on that Level. Without that he can perform 2 Heals.

Every Class if its Healer, Doc or CM have a other Role, Abilities and a Playstyle. The Big goal at the end is that we have 3 classes where people have fun to play and not only 1



Amen. Finally a Dev with the good sense to understand the difference between alpha and god-mode.

Did you even look at the spreadsheet? They aren't wrong.

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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby Ebola » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:30 pm

taiahwhatever wrote:
Ebola wrote:Amen. Finally a Dev with the good sense to understand the difference between alpha and god-mode.


Nowhere in my post did I say I wanted to be alpha or god-mode. The post was created to bring attention to an under performing class while including hard numbers as a basis for the discussion. If you believe a healer actually performing their role of healing in a group is god-mode then you might want to rethink your definition of the word.



Trisha, you guys were able to convince Heat to make Jedi closer to God mode on BF. HK's reply gives me faith that won't happen here.
Want to cry because a doc is better healer than you and you want to play the healer role? Play a doc then. Nooooooo I want to hold a LS while I heal. And Tank. And have unmitigated damage type.
The sooner you guys realize Jedis actual role in the group versus what you think it should, the sooner we can move on to other more important things.
Tsion - Master Doc / On break (tm)

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Re: Master Healer, by the numbers

Postby Ramin » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:52 pm

Ebola wrote:
taiahwhatever wrote:
Ebola wrote:Amen. Finally a Dev with the good sense to understand the difference between alpha and god-mode.


Nowhere in my post did I say I wanted to be alpha or god-mode. The post was created to bring attention to an under performing class while including hard numbers as a basis for the discussion. If you believe a healer actually performing their role of healing in a group is god-mode then you might want to rethink your definition of the word.



Trisha, you guys were able to convince Heat to make Jedi closer to God mode on BF. HK's reply gives me faith that won't happen here.
Want to cry because a doc is better healer than you and you want to play the healer role? Play a doc then. Nooooooo I want to hold a LS while I heal. And Tank. And have unmitigated damage type.
The sooner you guys realize Jedis actual role in the group versus what you think it should, the sooner we can move on to other more important things.


Don't blame us for the state of Jedi on Bloodfin. We never advocated for anything to make Jedi stronger than it already was on there. It was exactly as it was when we started playing and nothing we said made any impact on what Heat actually did.

If anything we tried to have him tone some things down because they were so out of whack. Brought it to his attention that Total Heal Self was usable and spammable at 0 force cost yet it was never fixed.

Also urged him to nerf Avoid Incap from its godly 24/7 usable state. The posts that even mentioned our suggestion of nerfing AI were met with so much blind rage it was seeping from the computer screen.

You're memory of what occurred seems rather obscured. Either way, the non-existent balance of Bloodfin has no relevance here.
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