Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

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TheTinyPebble
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Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby TheTinyPebble » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:10 pm

In an effort to keep new players informed on the state of Jedi on Revelation I would like to invite all Jedis to put down some thoughts about how the Powers skill works on the current state of Revelation.

Feedback can include, but is not limited to: The necessity of the master box, whether or not all skills are useful, anything that can be done to improve the profession to make it more complete.

We welcome all thoughts on this subject, do not be offended if a player thinks differently of a skill than you do.

The previous thread for anyone interested: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=629

I realise some of this feedback might exist elsewhere on the forums and/or in the previous thread, but I would like this post to be as updated as possible for new players.
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby Stomis » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:47 pm

In the efforts of consolidation I'll reshare some things I thought/think should be tweaked.

Having fought powers jedi Im very impressed with where we've gotten to with this profession. I dont have personal feedback on it but based on talking to Toni and a couple others it really seems like the only downside to powers at the moment is the lack of any defense like lightsaber has, which seems to force you to at least take xxx4 sabers. Just spitballing but perhaps the lightsaber toughness and saber block stats could be distributed across all the powers boxes but at the same time put a cap on these stats in place so the numbers cant be greater than what is already achievable in MLS. This would prevent uber stacking between powers and saber.


The guaranteed short states and knockdowns are awesome. Im so glad HK decided to go that route. It really adds some serious usefulness to powers knowing that they can put my melee stacker on his back!
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby TuskenJawa » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:07 pm

Hey guys! First I'd like to say, Powers has really gotten some much needed love, so thank you to all that have helped to make it what it is now! Okay, I'll post a few ideas on what I think would help it as well as some feedback with the new changes.

Some of my info is outdated and I will update as I test it

Lighting
Pros: Feels much faster now! A nice boost to speed with Single 2 now being two seconds (based on combat log)
Pros: Damage feels much better. I can now use it as a main attack
Pros: Aftershock DoT is very nice!
Cons: Aftershock DoT seems to have a rare chance to apply
Cons: Mobs with high Electricity resist makes Force Lightning unusable. Don't be surprised when you have to use Mind Blast to do damage.
Thoughts: I love lighting! Armor reducing damaged can be its only issue. 80%+ armor will reduce 80%+ damage.

Mind Blast
Pros: Different damage type (Kinetic)
Cons: Still very slow
Cons: No single attack
Cons: Attacks random HAM pool
Cons: Kinetic damage
Cons: Animation looks really weird!
Thoughts: I'd love to see Mind Blast mimic Lighting with a single and a cone attack. Another thing I'd love to see is it only attack the Mind pool. Damage type, Heat or Blast for some reason sounds more fitting for this ability. Not even sure if this is even possible but it would look much better if Mind Blast could share the same animation as the Geo Pistol.

Force Weaken
Pros: Can't be healed
Pros: 1 and 2 stack
Cons: Only really usable for PvP (in my opinion)
Cons: No icon showing if it was applied
Thoughts: I found that it was only really useful for PvP fights. If it's PvE, you will be dealing with a high HAM mob, making it only usable for the last few k HAM. My suggestion would be to also give it a resist and armor reduction debuff. Also removing the beam animation would make it look better.

Force Intimidate
Pros: Intim 1 has nice range
Pros: 1 and 2 have great damage reduction
Pros: Intim 2 is AoE
Cons: Intim 1 cone is very narrow and will miss a lot of targets in front of you
Cons: Intim 2 needs to be applied up close (not good for a ranged class)
Thoughts: Intimidate is a must for any Powers build and I use it for all my combat. My suggestion would be giving Intimidate 2 a ranged AoE. So 12m range around the target, not the player applying it. Also removing the beam animation would make it look better.

Force Knockdown
Pros: Ranged Knockdown
Pros: RANGED KNOCKDOWN!
Pros: Options for single, cone and AoE targets.
Pros: Does not do damage, so it can be used for WB events!
Cons: Global cooldown ties up your combat queue.
Thoughts: Other than the 5 second global cooldown (I'll check with new changes) it is great!

Force Throw
Thoughts: I have found very little use for this skill. My suggestion would be removing all damage from this and making it apply Blind/Dizzy/Stun and a slight slowing effect to the target. Also removing the beam animation and replacing it with the Geo Pistol animation would make it look better.

Force Choke
Pros: Nice DoT attack
Pros: Accuracy makes it hit a lot more
Cons: No icon showing if it was applied
Thoughts: Works great!

Final Thoughts
Powers is on it's way to becoming a great addition to any Jedi build or even an alternative to Sabers! On top of what I've suggested, I'd also recommend giving Powers a defensive tree similar to Sabers. This would mean giving Powers its own weapon to equip to prevent someone from stacking Saber/Power/Defender. Maybe a ring or a holocron that can't be seen in your hand. Saber Block would be Force Block, Saber Toughness would be Force Toughness. Maybe with each generation of Powers weapon, you could be given extra Powers Knowledge and accuracy. This would make a saberless build even more effective without a saber, giving you a true alternative to a sabers build!
Last edited by TuskenJawa on Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:42 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby HK47 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:31 pm

Thoughts: I love lighting! The only thing I would say to make it a little more useful would be making Aftershock stack with each use. The more lighting you use, that nastier it gets. Also I'd recommend that with each Aftershock, your Lightning speed cooldown would decrease. Obviously both would have a cap at some point.

Hm theoretical it should stack from each skill, so Light I one stack Light II one stack .. can you verify that ?

Intimidate->
Cons: Long global cooldown. Applying 1 and 2 will leave you without doing DPS or heals for an uncomfortable amount of time (need to check logs)

What do you mean with long global cooldown ?

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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby TuskenJawa » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:19 am

HK47 wrote:
Hm theoretical it should stack from each skill, so Light I one stack Light II one stack .. can you verify that ?

What do you mean with long global cooldown ?


Ok, so I tested out Lightning. 1 missed a lot. As for 2, I could only get the dot to apply once. Lightning 1 never applied a dot and missed too much to test. I could never get Cone to apply the dot. Also the one time the dot did apply, WOW! it was really nice! I will remove my suggestion for it stacking, it would be way to OP.

I just tested Force Intim and it's MUCH better! You fixed it!!! I hadn't given it a test in over a week. Sorry for outdated info, I removed it.

I also tested Choke and armor does not reduce choke dot. I updated my original post.
Last edited by TuskenJawa on Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby CmdrPwn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:15 am

Force powers should only count as a "force attack". It should not be blocked by any armor or PSG.

"Force Powers can only be defended against by Force defenses (Force Defense, Force Shield, Force Absorb, and Force Feedback)"

- Quote from the jedi FAQ and I would like it to stay that way.

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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby Stomis » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:50 am

I have to agree that armor shouldn't be stopping some force attacks. Choke should never be negated period. Neither should mind blast. Things that are kinetic based ideas should however. Lightning I feel shouldn't be negated by armor but a PSG should work.

Remember watching the movies, there were weapons and shields that would absorb/block force attacks/saber.
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby TuskenJawa » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:50 pm

I made some updates to my original post and I will continue to do so.

Armor has no effect on Force Coke

Without armor on a player, Lightning Single 2 will average 1,000 damage. With 80% Comp armor equipped, it will average around 120 damage. Both tests were without Intimidate and on an unbuffed player.
Last edited by TuskenJawa on Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby CmdrPwn » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:27 pm

If lightning is electricity then a player could wear 80% comp AND a 63% PSG which would make the damage close to nothing. That doesn't make any sense and I believe it was overlooked by SOE or it was a bug.

Now if you want to make it so only the PSG stops lightning then it would have to be lightsaber damage, but I heard that revelation also has some armors that have lightsaber resists? So not only does that not make sense, but it's still too much resistance against lightning.

Does intimidate and synthsteak still reduce force power damage? That should be enough of a damage reduction. It doesn't need armor/psg also resisting it. It would be best to just classify all force powers as only force attacks, then they will actually be worth using. It's a very easy fix, all you have to do is delete the line that starts with "damageType =" for each force power. I did this already on my test center and it works very well.

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Re: Powers Feedback (20/6/16)

Postby Stomis » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:04 am

CmdrPwn wrote:If lightning is electricity then a player could wear 80% comp AND a 63% PSG which would make the damage close to nothing. That doesn't make any sense and I believe it was overlooked by SOE or it was a bug.

Now if you want to make it so only the PSG stops lightning then it would have to be lightsaber damage, but I heard that revelation also has some armors that have lightsaber resists? So not only does that not make sense, but it's still too much resistance against lightning.

Does intimidate and synthsteak still reduce force power damage? That should be enough of a damage reduction. It doesn't need armor/psg also resisting it. It would be best to just classify all force powers as only force attacks, then they will actually be worth using. It's a very easy fix, all you have to do is delete the line that starts with "damageType =" for each force power. I did this already on my test center and it works very well.



Well firstly 63% PSGs dont exist here. 32% is crafted cap plus slice if you so choose.

Lightsaber armor exists here as a balancing act. Jedi is not suppose to be an overly elite class here and LS resist was part of that. I think people have this misconception that LS armor is the only weighing factor going on. Jedi also have mitigation in defender which they never had so thats also huge.

Intimidation does affect force powers and honestly I cant think of any argument for it not.

Now if powers were to go straight through armor and a PSG and smack people in pvp for 1200 a shot every 2 seconds then the only way I could see balance in that is if it was done like Toni said. You get either a dummy saber or some sort of piece of jewelry to wield your powers, no saber toughness, no block, only defender or force armor if you so choose. You have to be squishy to be hitting like that and honestly people would cry they get killed to easily.

Thats why personally IMO after dueling/hunting powers jedi and knowing what they hit me for and how they can state me, how they can knock me down no matter my defense I think the correct amount of resistance to have is all in the PSG. Or maybe even powers could be given an armor piercing statistic like weapons have?
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