Powers Feedback

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TuskenJawa
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby TuskenJawa » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:26 pm

HK47 wrote:there will be a 3rd round tweaks coming :)

Maybe as idea: we could change the Animal Attack to something like a Attack which only working on PVE enemies or animals.
The attack takes their Health and convert a bit of that into own health and force


I love the idea of a leech ability. Since Powers has no defensive skills, it would help counter attacks while still being able to do damage.


Death Plague: Attacks a single target and heals the user for 1500 HAM as well as granting 600 FP.

As a penalty for use, you could have Death Plague reduce overall HAM by 300 for each use for a brief amount of time (10 seconds?). Kind of like a mini Force Weaken on yourself. Overuse will end up reducing your HAM to 0 and can't be healed. With this penalty, it can be used for PvP and PvE.
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby Jarl » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:50 pm

TuskenJawa wrote:Death Plague: Attacks a single target and heals the user for 1500 HAM as well as granting 600 FP.

As a penalty for use, you could have Death Plague reduce overall HAM by 300 for each use for a brief amount of time (10 seconds?). Kind of like a mini Force Weaken on yourself. Overuse will end up reducing your HAM to 0 and can't be healed. With this penalty, it can be used for PvP and PvE.


I feel it would be healthier to keep it limited to PVE. This single limitation allows it to be easily tweaked for force regen and yet still always remain useful to Powers.
That isn't to say some kind of penalty might not still be required. Your idea seems quite sensible otherwise.

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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby TuskenJawa » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:57 pm

Jarl wrote:
TuskenJawa wrote:Death Plague: Attacks a single target and heals the user for 1500 HAM as well as granting 600 FP.

As a penalty for use, you could have Death Plague reduce overall HAM by 300 for each use for a brief amount of time (10 seconds?). Kind of like a mini Force Weaken on yourself. Overuse will end up reducing your HAM to 0 and can't be healed. With this penalty, it can be used for PvP and PvE.


I feel it would be healthier to keep it limited to PVE. This single limitation allows it to be easily tweaked for force regen and yet still always remain useful to Powers.
That isn't to say some kind of penalty might not still be required. Your idea seems quite sensible otherwise.


Good point! It can be hard to balance this for PvP. Perhaps as an alternative, it doesn't do damage to the target (PvP or PvE) and is more like a Channel Force ability. This way it's still useful for any situation.
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby Stomis » Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:10 pm

Just to add to what Avari said and get it down on here.

After pvping with xx4x powers last night Ive drawn my conclusions that no matter what is done to powers if the delays are not HEAVILY modified it will never be viable even as support like Im trying to do. I have 28 points tied up in that tree and at the moment all it does it get you killed, real fast. I stare at that combat log waiting for the move to fall off for so long its dreadful. In the time it takes for me to do my next attack a single player can heal the intim off them self, and kill me (you know since I cant heal and all...).

Im way better off having novice brawler. Its 10 points, the intim costs nothing, Ill get warcry too and another 18 points to put elsewhere. Sure I wont have a cone intim, or any intim2/aoe, or weaken but the delay just ruins it. I must have died 3 times last night because I would run in, intim, start getting hit and not be able to heal. So the only viable way to play it is have fr2, run in intim, run out LOS, come back they all healed it off anyway, rinse and repeat...lame.

The kicker is even if intim/intim2/weaken was speed capped its now costing me 200 force to need to put it on when an enemy jedi can take it off for 50 force even quicker than I can put it on, again making novice brawler better in a lot of ways. Sure I know theres plenty of people out there that arent jedi but to be fair in pvp its 75% jedi.

Some may not like this idea but Ive been saying it about powers from the start, for the force cost it takes to dish out powers things should be bypassing defenses. If Im going to intim and its gonna cost me 200 force how is it balanced that someone can heal that off for 50 force with no delay and go back to fighting like I never even used it? Even though its a 30 second timer perhaps it should stick for 10 seconds no matter what. Just like how I feel that force knockdown should flat out bypass KD defense, or how lightning dot shouldnt be curable. There needs to be some sort of incentive that things are going to function for the cost of all these points you're spending on this stuff or the world is gonna stay a land of MLS/MDEFs and healers and to be honest thats getting kind of old...

So in a list heres the things Id like to see.

+Force intim 1 delay reduced to be on par speed capped with novice brawler. The penalty of use should come from taking force to use it.

+Force intim 2 delay reduced to a slight delay, perhaps 1.5-2 seconds. Force speed should affect this and speed cap it or close.

+Force intim 1/2 should by default stick for a base amount of times, 10-15 seconds perhaps (half theyre total time), OR have a strength value to not just be healed off in one shot (similar to how strong poisons have to be treated multiple times).

+Force weaken in general works well. Delay should be reduced to be on par with the delay between throwing poisons. Other combat actions should be able to be done between though. This would prevent spamming it but allow a player to continue fighting.



Im aware another powers fix is coming. Im just sharing my experience from finally Pvping with it.
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby avari » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:39 am

I was wondering why you died so much =p

Here's also a list of the current force costs I tested

Force Choke - 300 FC
Force Intimidate 1 - 100 FC
Force Intimidate 2 - 150 FC
Force Knockdown 1 - 75 FC
Force Knockdown 2 - 100 FC
Force Knockdown 3 - 200 FC
Force Lightning Cone 1 - 100 FC
Force Lightning Cone 2 - 200 FC
Force Lightning Single 1 - 60 FC
Force Lightning Single 2 - 100 FC
Force Throw 1 - 28 FC
Force Throw 2 - 56 FC
Force Weaken 1 - 400 FC
Force Weaken 2 - 400 FC
Mind Blast 1 - 68 FC
Mind Blast 2 - 160 FC

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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby Stomis » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:05 am

avari wrote:I was wondering why you died so much =p

Here's also a list of the current force costs I tested

Force Choke - 300 FC
Force Intimidate 1 - 100 FC
Force Intimidate 2 - 150 FC
Force Knockdown 1 - 75 FC
Force Knockdown 2 - 100 FC
Force Knockdown 3 - 200 FC
Force Lightning Cone 1 - 100 FC
Force Lightning Cone 2 - 200 FC
Force Lightning Single 1 - 60 FC
Force Lightning Single 2 - 100 FC
Force Throw 1 - 28 FC
Force Throw 2 - 56 FC
Force Weaken 1 - 400 FC
Force Weaken 2 - 400 FC
Mind Blast 1 - 68 FC
Mind Blast 2 - 160 FC



Ugh the amount of times I heard on vent:

"Stomis heal. Stomis heal! STOMIS HEAL!"

And me replying "I Fucking cant theres a god damn 5 second delay and Im here dying and he already healed the intim off wtf!"
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby Parth » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:29 am

ive told andi a year ago that the gcd on jedi abilities is too high. theres a link to my initial post from august on page1 of this thread.
same goes for the channel effect for instance. where you cant even type in chat as long as your cd is running.
i know hes aware, it might be a tricky thing to reduce it, i dunno.

to justify the 28sp for intim 2 and live with the gcd and fc id recommend thinking about making it always hit - and yeah not able to be healed off or a lower chance to be healed by state heals (jedi&docs) might be a good idea, too.
the worst part of witnessing your force going down and your inability to not do anything while a defender is going through your ham is the fact that you dont even HIT. i did some duels with defenders and got intim2 to stack in 1/10 cases. it might be random numbers, but yeah, states are just healed within a second.

i still think that powers as a whole is unbalanced and is offering unneeded skills while defender is the real issue of needing a balance. but we have this in this and others threadfs alrdy.

id also toss in the thought of making novice brawler skills not executable while wearing a LS. 10sp for intim1 and warcry which can be tossed w/o a delay or any cost makes no sense to me.
we took the jedi abiliites/skills from regular chars last year, it would just be consequent to go all the way and make it vice-versa.
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Re: Powers Feedback

Postby Stomis » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:59 pm

Parth wrote:ive told andi a year ago that the gcd on jedi abilities is too high. theres a link to my initial post from august on page1 of this thread.
same goes for the channel effect for instance. where you cant even type in chat as long as your cd is running.
i know hes aware, it might be a tricky thing to reduce it, i dunno.

to justify the 28sp for intim 2 and live with the gcd and fc id recommend thinking about making it always hit - and yeah not able to be healed off or a lower chance to be healed by state heals (jedi&docs) might be a good idea, too.
the worst part of witnessing your force going down and your inability to not do anything while a defender is going through your ham is the fact that you dont even HIT. i did some duels with defenders and got intim2 to stack in 1/10 cases. it might be random numbers, but yeah, states are just healed within a second.

i still think that powers as a whole is unbalanced and is offering unneeded skills while defender is the real issue of needing a balance. but we have this in this and others threadfs alrdy.

id also toss in the thought of making novice brawler skills not executable while wearing a LS. 10sp for intim1 and warcry which can be tossed w/o a delay or any cost makes no sense to me.
we took the jedi abiliites/skills from regular chars last year, it would just be consequent to go all the way and make it vice-versa.



Personally I'm not a fan of the inability to hybrid on the server. Jedi skills should be restricted by wearing armor, not lack of Saber but that's a totally different conversation in its own.

I would gather that when FRS comes out novice brawler won't be a a viable template to be in the frs. An educated guess would say 245 sp into Jedi would be a requirement to travel up the frs ladder. That being said I think taking novice brawler away from Jedi atm would be a hasty cure. Force intim should be viable and fixed before that's considered.
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